Posts by rather be in hades

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

What built the universe? The answer to that is based on opinion at this time. Isn't that the point of the discussion here, somewhat?

there's a pretty big gap between opinion and scientific theory. one is based on irrelevant bs, the other is based on math and physical evidence. there are theories and models in quantum mechanics that don't require "god" at all. yea i know, something from nothing blah blah blah. unfortunately thats a poor excuse for a rebuttal and completely sidesteps the evidence presented.

Small yes, but no less real, truthful and relevant to the topic on hand.

actually it's very much irrelevant because of that for so many reasons. that's why i was hinting at statistics.

including yours.

believe you me, i know. that's why i stick to using math and physical evidence to prove my point and not my "observations" with a sample size of nil.

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

Agreed. The key is investigating the natural world as we now know it. Some here want science to prove god. As of now, hasn't been able to. So they say well if science can't prove, it isn't real.

or there's...0 evidence for anything even remotely approaching god? where did the concept of god originate from? did it possibly originate from early humans trying to explain the world around them? sure seems like it considering how god has evolved through the ages. as humans progressed, god changed and became more and more sophisticated but that doesn't take away from the very poor logic used to justify the existence of god in the first place.

To that I say if you are going to look to science to answer the question does god exist, you will be disappointed for now. That isn't speaking disdainfully of anything.

you're saying that shows a very poor understanding of science and exposes a basic flaw of religious/god logic. the believer seeks to prove the existence of god. science simply works to understand why something happens. there's no control over this at all. in science, everyone has to have this evidence. it has to be replicable. none of this, "well i prayed to god and he gave me the right lotto numbers to play" business.

What I do find disdainful is, again, the prevailing attitude that atheism is the pinnacle of human intelligence and success.

again with this? and where did anyone say that?

People who choose to believe or have a faith are hit over the head with "oh yeah? prove it, prove it." You know damn well it can't be proven now.

it's funny, when most people realize they have no proof of a concept, they realize they might have been wrong...

So what's the real story behind all that? "Well, god didn't answer my prayers....why did he let me down...I lost my husband/wife/child/parent, why did he let that happen?" That to me is what's really behind it.

what's the real story with believers clinging to something they have no proof of and never had any sort of proof of?are they not capable of basic reason and logic? can they not understand simple genetics? that to me is what's really behind it... or am i painting with a very broad brush based on an opinion which has a value of a chocolate starfish?

29

Would doubting Thomas be an atheist today?

by yadda yadda 2 in

how could it be reasonable for jesus to condemn skeptics today when one of his own apostles, who had witnessed jesus pre-death miracles, refused to believe in the resurrection until he had physical proof?.

doesn't the fact that jesus willingly gave thomas the requested proof set a precedent for all other skeptics down through time?

isn't the burden of proof on jesus to provide indisputable evidence that he is now alive given that so much time has passed since his claimed resurrection, and until he does that, it would be immoral for jesus to judge anyone?.

rather be in hades

the silence on this thread is interesting considering how much religious debate has gone on since it was made

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

I don't see the need to explain a thing Qcmbr, about either Ganesh, Jesus, Allah...whomever. Irrelevant to me.

in other words, you can't back up your opinions with anything factual so you got upset...

Going back to what I said earlier, whatever I state is in my opinion, and this opinion is based on things that I have observed in a lot of atheists that I know, upon closer inspection, and in some cases by their own admissions.

the problem with opinions is that they are often wrong and thankfully, we have this branch of mathematics called statistics which helps clear the muddy waters of opinons. so basic math tells us, your observations aren't worth much of anything.

My experience of god is personal to me. You want to look up to science and "supported evidence" ok fine. Noone is stopping you.

great, keep that in mind when you decide to try and cast others as "angry and vengeful" based on an extremely small sample size. a sample size that is, in mathematical terms, worthless.

i'm not sure how to process your view on fact based evidence. that one blows my mind. the universe is built on facts, laws and reality. not opinions

One theory can prove or disprove another in the blink of an eye. One discovery can dispel years or centuries of misconception and supersition. Wonderful. Supported evidence can do just that.

But just like religion, science has the power to destroy the lives of millions. Believe that? Look at the power of a split atom. In the right hands, great. In the wrong ones....we already know.

And that's supposed to be enlightened? Reasonable?

that's right, science can be used for good or bad.

that also has no bearing on whether science is real or a big ol' bag of manure.

no one is trying to force you to change your moral code and force you to lilve with principles you don't like in science. god is very different as i've shown.

and i'd like to point out, there is a difference between scientific law and theory. you should check that out because it's a common mistake made by believers who don't understand the difference.

Just like believers are moved by emotion, so are atheists, just in the opposite direction. Again, in my opinion (supported by observation).

so again, you base your opinions of atheists on a sample size of nil. you know what they say about opinions...

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

I really don't understand your crap attitude Qcmbr.

is his attitude crap, or do you not like being questioned? NOTHING qcmbr said indicated a "crap attitude" and all qcmbr did was ask some rather simple questions.

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

I can only answer that question conclusively for myself. The same goes for you.

which sounds suspiciously like, "it's real to me and that's what matters"

so you want to claim the "REAL god" yet you can't point to who that is. i'm afraid that does not compute. if there is a real god, then we ought to know which god is the RIGHT one no?

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

Just to be clear, responding to this is tiresome, but I feel it's needed. You cannot equate your non belief of Zeus with your non belief of Christ simply because you never believed in Zeus to start with.

it certainly makes for an interesting question though. those people thought zeus was real with 0 physical evidence to back that up. are you making the same mistake?

Bringing up Zues, or any other false gods for that matter, just detracts from the main issue, that you stopped believing in Christ, the REAL God.

evidence that there was a christ?

evidence that he is the REAL god?

evidence that he performed any miracles?

I stopped believing in Christ too, check my post history for proof. But as I contemplated on what atheists like you had to say

I realized that all your are doing is equating Christ, the real God, with Zeus a false one and then calling the real God also false

(you are making a mistake). If you look into history you can see that gods were just a way of establishing order in a civilization.

The people at the top of these governmental structures knew that it was their military prowess, among other secular pursuits,

that created their power, NOT divine authority. But they claimed otherwise making them liars fit for destruction, and now they are gone.

and how do you know that christianity hasn't been co-opted in the exact same way? everything about the history of christianity suggests that it's nothing more than a means to control people. the catholic church in particular, but we could also point to the church of england, any mega church, and the real estate holdings and business dealings of the jehovah's witnesses, mormons and the roman catholic church which has been known to do some money laundering for some very unholy people.

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

the conclusion is no more reasonable then there is a god. somehow there is this prevailing belief that being an atheist is the pinnacle of reason and intelligence, something to aspire to.

ummmm no? i've yet to meet an atheist who says that being an atheist is the "pinnacle of reason and intelligence" that's just flat out wrong on every level. if anything, an atheist would say learn some math and science.

maybe for some, but again I think that's based more on negative emotion and experience than on reason.

i get it, you read minds

I don't believe that religion=god. That's why I'm an EXJW but not an atheist.

fantastic. me too. exjw, not an atheist. that said, where did the concept of god come from? why are so many awful things done in the name of god and why hasn't god stopped any of that if he exists?

some do, more than religious people in some cases. but again, in my experience, the one's I know have a somewhat limited morality.

They're very much "live for the moment" types.

lmfao. so on a statistical sample of essentially nil...

29

Would doubting Thomas be an atheist today?

by yadda yadda 2 in

how could it be reasonable for jesus to condemn skeptics today when one of his own apostles, who had witnessed jesus pre-death miracles, refused to believe in the resurrection until he had physical proof?.

doesn't the fact that jesus willingly gave thomas the requested proof set a precedent for all other skeptics down through time?

isn't the burden of proof on jesus to provide indisputable evidence that he is now alive given that so much time has passed since his claimed resurrection, and until he does that, it would be immoral for jesus to judge anyone?.

rather be in hades

btt. very interesting question. anyone want to take a crack at it?

553

Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo in

jw
friends

until recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.

it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.

do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.

rather be in hades

In my opinion, it's impossible to be atheist. Atheists are just angry with god for causing x y or z in their lives.

some atheists come to a very reasonable conclusion that there is no god simply because they have no proof or even a shred of evidence that god exists. then there's so many inconsistencies between religion and the real universe that it calls into question the very nature of god.

or they come to that conclusion after reading about the history of religious beliefs. we've gone from worshipping animals, the sun, the rain, multiple gods, one god, a trinity of gods...why wouldn't god(s?) clarify that? shouldn't we know who to worship if there was someone to worship?

They also know that living by a moral code or having standards is hard work.

are you saying atheists have no moral code? i didn't realize atheists were the only ones running around committing crimes...

They take the easy way out by thinking "if there is no god then I don't have to worry about being an upright person." Therefore, voila-no god.

Makes life easy doesn't it? Their scorn for believers is their own conscience nagging at them.

sigh...

you want to explain the sordid history of religion and how that can be reconciled by the "superior morals" of believers?

animal sacrifices, human sacrifices, burning witches, inquisitions, numerous wars, supporting slavery, castigating homosexuals, racism in part (ham is cursed with black skin???), women's rights and education issues...all stemming from believers.

todd akin

fred phelps (westboro baptist church dickwad. aka..god hates "fags")

terry jones (qu'ran burning moron deliberately trying to incite violence, let's call it what it is).

suicide bombers? al qaeda? the taliban? have we forgotten 9/11?

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses???

and believers wonder why they get so much push back after absolutely misrepresenting atheists...